http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/ <![CDATA[Comments on: Santa Claus Lives!]]> Jonathan WordPress 2007-10-01T15:20:27Z http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1924 2007-10-01T15:20:27Z <![CDATA[Comment by: Lincoln Cannon]]> http://transfigurism.org I am Santa Claus, and I’ve answered more than one prayer.

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1945 2007-10-02T07:43:55Z <![CDATA[Comment by: Jonathan Blake]]> http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/ Fair enough, but I think I’m in Daniel Dennett’s camp: I think it’s healthier to know and acknowledge the human source of goodness in our lives.

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1947 2007-10-02T08:54:10Z <![CDATA[Comment by: Lincoln Cannon]]> http://transfigurism.org I fully agree that we should acknolwedge human goodness, and do not see that at all in conflict with Santa Claus or God. I am a religious humanist — as, I believe, all Mormons should be.

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1968 2007-10-03T01:09:25Z <![CDATA[Comment by: C. L. Hanson]]> http://lfab-uvm.blogspot.com/ I’ve had this discussion with fellow atheists before: that to show respect for theists we should be saying “I think you’re open-minded enough to weigh my arguments, intelligent enough to understand them, and mature enough to accept that I’m right and you’re wrong.”

Looking at it this way, I agree that there is a very real question of respect for the individual theist’s intellect and character vs. dismissing theists as stupid and juvenile. Yet at the same time, this position betrays a certain degree of arrogance.

For myself I would rather say the following: “Here are my conclusions about God, and here is my reasoning. The fact that my conclusions make sense is perfectly clear to me, and should logically be clear to you as well. If the logic of my position is not clear to you, I cannot be sure precisely why. I can spend time trying to figure out why, or trying to get you to change your mind, or I can work on strategies to coexist peacefully with you despite our differences.”

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1978 2007-10-03T10:05:15Z <![CDATA[Comment by: Jonathan Blake]]> http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/ Lincoln,

I’m curious about what it really means to be a religious humanist. What does that mean in your case.

C. L. Hanson,

I think you’re open-minded enough to weigh my arguments, intelligent enough to understand them, and mature enough to accept that I’m right and you’re wrong.

Hmm. If that’s how I come across, then I need to work on that. Someone recently wrote that it’s kind of like having a roommate who always takes the opportunity to tell you everywhere that you’re doing wrong. She may be right, but honestly, do you really care at that point?

I’m enough of an agnostic that I would characterize my attitude as “I think you’re open-minded enough to weigh my arguments, intelligent enough to understand them, and mature enough to accept that I believe that I’m right and you’re wrong and that honest, intelligent people disagree.”

It’s not like I go around in real life telling every theist how wrong they are. The Gideons were on campus this morning, handing out pocket Bibles. When they offered me a copy, I politely declined and just kept walking (even after being asked by the third or fourth Gideon on my long walk across campus). This blog is my outlet for the impolite thoughts that are hard to air in person.

I don’t really need everyone to agree with me in the theist/atheist debate, though that might be nice. What I really want is a community where we listen to each other, engage each other’s views, and allow everyone to think as they choose to. The world is too balkanized, even the internet.

I believe that the people who offer the Santa Claus analogy don’t generally patronize religious believers (though some do, I’m sure). It’s probably just that the analogy sounds condescending when it’s not.

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1979 2007-10-03T12:18:07Z <![CDATA[Comment by: C. L. Hanson]]> http://lfab-uvm.blogspot.com/ Right, that was Seth R., whom I quoted over on MSP! ;)

I completely sympathize with your position, and I think that in practice our interactions with real-life believers are probably pretty similar.

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http://www.blakeclan.org/jon/greenoasis/2007/10/01/santa-claus-lives/comment-page-1/#comment-1986 2007-10-03T17:13:42Z <![CDATA[Comment by: Lincoln Cannon]]> http://transfigurism.org Jonathan, “religious transhumanist” describes me more accurately than “religious humanist”. That said, I understand “religious humanism” to describe religion calculated to exalt humans, as well as their relationships with each other and the world.

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