“Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet; don’t go astray.
Follow the prophet, follow the prophet,
Follow the prophet he knows the way.”

I think this is a trend just as much among the churched as the unchurched.

Atheists can have just as much of a strong set of beliefs and values as Southern Baptists.

http://mormontimes.com/ME_blogs.php?id=827

In this way, Alma the Younger’s conversion experience, like Saul’s on the road to Damascus, is metaphorically what we all experience when we are truly converted: The old self, the old worldview, is killed. We are no longer the person we were. Nothing looks the same afterward.

But that’s beside the point. His idea of deep religion is insightful, and I agree that we can’t help but have that rub off on our children. That doesn’t preclude us from allowing them to make their own choices about surface religion, from requiring our children to think for themselves by not being too quick to provide our own answers, and from seeking to make them aware of the nature of our deep religion.

For example, one precept of my deep religion that I am aware of is that truth leads to good things. I would usually rather know the miserable truth than be blissfully ignorant. I think everyone would be better off if we all felt that same compulsion to know the truth.

That aspect of my deep religion will rub off on my children to some degree. Where I disagree with Card is that I don’t think we need to surrender to this process. Mindful awareness of our deep religion can bring it into the realm of conscious reasoning. I have a chance at changing it if necessary. I can make my children aware of this deep assumption and they can make their own choices. In this way, they can ideally be as free from the traditions of their fathers as they choose to be.

I’m sure that our differences is only a matter of degrees. Card probably sees parenting something like sculpting topiary. He plans to deliver a carefully pruned adult to the world, shaped by the beliefs of its parents. I plan to nurture my children and watch their natural form and beauty unfold. I aim to use as little pruning as necessary to keep them healthy so that I can discover who they are instead of consciously imposing my ideas on them.

In fact, the whole idea of not forcing religion on children is really an attempt to force open-mindedness on them. But children don’t want that kind of open-mindedness. They want answers to their questions. If they don’t get them from you, they’ll get them from somebody.

I meant to respond specifically to this as well. I think this comes from a misunderstanding of what parental open-mindedness can be. An example:

Child: Do you believe in God?

Parent: No, I don’t. What do you think about God?

C: I don’t know. Other kids believe in God.

P: Do they say why they believe in God?

C: Janie said that she believed in God because the Bible says he’s real.

P: Do you think that’s a good reason?

C: I guess.

P: Do you think everything that you read is true?

C: No.

P: Do you think everything in the Bible is true?

C: I don’t know. I haven’t really read it.

P: Maybe we should study the Bible together…

The child definitely knows what the parent’s beliefs are, but there is never the assumption that the child must share those beliefs or that the child even should.

I don’t really think it’s fair to kids to make them make up their own minds until they actually have a mind to make up in the first place.

I think there is a huge difference between guiding vs telling children what they should believe in. If the church is saying that an 8 yr old has the capasity to choose and be baptized, than I belive that the church should teach primary children how to deduct if the church is true and be baptized. If the church can not do this because children don’t have the ability to reason their choices, than 8 year old should not be taking that huge responsibility.

I am a new homeschooler (meaning mostly that I support my wife in homeschooling), and I bet you can guess which side of that debate I would probably take.

And who’s talking about making the kids make up their minds? I try to make it clear that they are free to change their minds as often as they think necessary or free to reserve judgment until they know more. All of us could probably use a little more of this strategy in our lives. I mean, who really knows what the best thing to do in Iraq is? Most of us are just armchair generals.

BEEHIVE,

Agreed. I think eight years old is old enough to make lifelong commitments. Why the rush? I think Mormons rush them into those commitments because they’re afraid that the children won’t make them if they’re older and more independent. Baptizing at eight kind of gets the ball rolling for making commitments to the church.

I want to give my girls the tools they need to learn and decide for themselves rather than spoon-feed them my regurgitated opinions.

I talked about this a bit on my own blog recently here.

I think it’s not such an uncommon opinion in the atheist community. I just saw a related post here — not specifically about parenting, but about the importance of encouraging critical thinking rather than trying to get people to accept atheism unquestioningly:

And that’s why I think that turning people away from religion is not enough. Instead, the primary goal of an atheist movement should be to instill in people the value of rational thinking. I’m worried that, as atheism gains in popularity, we will see a bunch of bandwagon-jumpers climbing on board because it is the thing to do rather than because they have thought critically about the issues. The truth is that most people do not think for themselves – they like to follow the crowd and do what they are told. That is the disease we need to combat in this world.

I don’t really think it’s fair to kids to make them make up their own minds until they actually have a mind to make up in the first place.

Which is precisely why the entire question can wait until they are old enough to work it out for themselves.

You’ve started with the assumption that they need a metaphysical stance of some kind at the age of five — and since they can’t sort it out for themselves, we need to do it for them. Why on Earth do they need to be declared, one way or the other, on issues of this kind in childhood? Do they have to be labeled Democrats or Republicans? Marxists or capitalists? Of course not. So why can we not simply leave them to their thoughts on the matter of religion, free to declare — and to change their minds repeatedly — once they are older?

I meant that I don’t think eight is old enough.

Dale McGowan,

I must say I feel like a celebrity has visited my humble blog. Pardon me if I gush.

I completely agree with what you said.

jon, are you and your wife doing a particular homeschooling method? my husband teaches at a waldorf school and our son goes there for now, but the ideals of unschooling really click with us as well. i haven’t found a homeschooling curriculum that makes sense to me.