The contempt and arrogance with which some Mormon leaders approach reason puts our children into harm’s way.

I don’t envy the church leaders. They are put in the position of defending all the strange and dangerous positions that the church has taken over the years in order to maintain the appearance of prophetic infallibility. The situation would be a lot better if the leadership humbly admitted that the leaders make mistakes, even when acting in their offices, and that the church’s policy regarding masturbation, for example, was a product of the culture. Instead they have to go on under the assumption that God dictated every jot and tittle that has come out of the leading quorums of the church.

The most interesting part of the article for me was learning that the church was so liberal in the 1920s and 30s. I wonder if allowing itself to be later swayed by arch-conservative leadership wasn’t a survival strategy for the church. The church is self-consciously set apart from the world. Perhaps the church had to take a contrarian position to protect that self-image.

Here’s a roundup of other discussions that I’ve come across:

Mormon woman seeking advice about masturbation—quite a few comments in support of the view that masturbation is healthy and not sinful. One insightful comment made the connection between church policies regarding birth control and racially mixed marriages and the policy regarding masturbation. Perhaps there is hope that the church will one day move on just like it did in those cases.

Recent convert doesn’t understand why masturbation is considered a sin—again, several people speak up in support of healthy attitudes toward masturbation.

It would be very interesting to study the attitudes and practices of Mormons of all stripes. Is there a disconnect between the official party line and the ideas of the hoi polloi?

Also, please forgive the following bit of pedantry: masturbation, not masterbation.

It is true that the church emphasizes personal confirmation of what is taught, but there is also a presumption that what the Spirit says will be in agreement with the Brethren. Members automatically suspect any other answer. If someone walked into a temple recommend interview and assured their bishop that the Spirit had told them that masturbation was OK for them, I doubt that would fly very far, depending on the bishop.

Personal revelation is OK and good in the church as long as it conforms to orthodox views. What happens when it doesn’t? How is a member to decide which revelation to follow: personal revelation or public revelation? If the answer is to always follow the prophet when in doubt, then why bother with seeking personal revelation?

Let me assure you that plenty of people masturbate and manage to have a healthy marital relationship. Masturbation doesn’t fulfill the exact same needs and is not a true substitute.

There is some danger of retreating sexually from a relationship into exclusive masturbation, especially when pornography is involved (which isn’t necessarily the case). Maintaining and nurturing a good sexual relationship can be difficult because it requires us to be selfless, to think outside of our own pleasure. But masturbation is no substitute for the emotional connection with another human being possible in a healthy relationship between two adults. Any attempt to substitute masturbation for a relationship would be a lonely, empty exercise and most people would notice the difference.

I contend that a retreat into exclusive masturbation is a sign of a bigger problem, not a necessarily a product of masturbation itself.

As far as revelation goes, it needs to follow the hierarchal path. An individual won’t receive revelation as to what church doctrine is, but can receive personal revelation as to the validity of such doctrine. The same applies as a bishop will not receive revelation for a church member not in his ward. ”Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God” (Doc&Cov 132:8) A deviation from that is a fallacy that many Mormons have. Plus, are these individuals preaching and revelating by the Spirit? Hence the need for personal revelation and confirmation.

Now, religious dogma aside and back to the primary subject of “Spanking the Monkey Makes Me Happy.” That could have been another title to use.

Some ground setters: I’m not new to the subject. I’ve had my fair share of experience. And, I’m basing this with the Mormon church set aside (although I’ll admit that it has influenced my opinion)

You said “Let me assure you that plenty of people masturbate and manage to have a healthy marital relationship.” Perhaps this is true. However as you often quote your personal experiences, mine have mostly been to the contrary. For the majority of people I have had this conversation with in the past, it has led to disappointment in the relationship. Normally when masturbation comes up it is either do to a joke or a problem in a sexual relationship. And before you assume anything, these were mostly women and mostly non-LDS individuals at that.

Statistically, masturbation accompanies fantasies and does often lead to p0rn. While pornography might not be the issue, I personally don’t know of anybody who has just upped and satisfied themselves without a little thought in the matter. Any good psychology major knows that sex is ten percent physical and ninety percent psychological. As to psychological stance that it helps relieve tension, they also admit that mediation and exercise can do the same. And ones body has a way of dealing with sexual tension on its own (ie: wet dreams). Masturbation can psychologically be viewed as an addition such as nail biting. So the notion of I can’t live without would be hard to prove to me.

Humans have evolved far past many other animals. We easily have the ability, and is some peoples case the disability, to overcome desires and instincts (which humans seem to lack much in the way of instincts compared to other animals). I’m hungry but I’m fasting to assist my body in purging toxins. I know this stove burner is hot, but I’m going to leave my hand on it because I’m a masochists. We are evolved beings, or so we hope and claim.

“Maintaining and nurturing a good sexual relationship can be difficult because it requires us to be selfless, to think outside of our own pleasure.” It’s interesting you point this out. Is not masturbation selfish? Does it please our partner? OK, maybe some people get their kicks off of it. Does doing so show love for your partner? Does it show honor for your partner or would it require seppuku to amend (obviously an extreme)? Masturbation is selfish. True love making is a selfless act as you’ve stated. I have found great pleasure in making sure my wife is satisfied, even at the cost of my own personal sexual satisfaction. The smiles and affections of my wife often transcend the requirement of my own climactic end. Although the benefits are nice and I will not say that I do not enjoy it, I do not make love to satisfy myself. And despite old addictions that die hard, it is not a requirement. Masturbation is a sexual act that distracts from ones partner. For that matter, the actual act of sex and the moment of climax are not always needed every time in the sexual relationship.

Masturbation is a selfish act in a relationship. I will not dispute this with a person not in a relationship. Although to someone who has not had sex, it can create misconceptions as to the act of lovemaking. Sex is power. With power comes responsibility. Power properly channeled can be useful and creative, or can be used for owns own selfish gain.

And if one is seeking understanding, many philosophies talk about transcending the physical and the self in order to reach true enlightenment. I do like the old Japanese notion that pillowing is about as close to the gods as we get. OK, a little religion there.

I won’t try to contradict your experience. But I wonder if masturbation is the cause of marital problems or if it is just a symptom. Perhaps we resort to masturbation when a sexual relationship isn’t going well and our needs are going unfulfilled. It’s a poor substitute, I admit, but coping mechanisms are rarely ideal. Perhaps we’re confusing correlation with causation.

Statistically, masturbation accompanies fantasies and does often lead to p0rn. While pornography might not be the issue, I personally don’t know of anybody who has just upped and satisfied themselves without a little thought in the matter.

I admit that this is true, but is fantasy necessarily bad? Perhaps we fantasize about making love to our spouse while we masturbate. I can see no harm in that. Even if we’re not so fastidious about the subject of our fantasies, I no longer believe that fantasy will strongly determine future behavior without other contributing factors. I would like to see studies on the subject, but for now, I’ll rely on my experience with fantasy in other parts of my life. I have fantasized about a great many things which I never actually did. Anything from overcoming my shyness to talk to that cute girl who seems to like me, to running off the road that jerk who cut me off. I fulfilled very few of my fantasies, including the ones involved in masturbation (much to the relieve, I’m sure, of my high school’s cheerleading squad… TMI?).

This is a complex subject. I won’t say that there is no danger in fantasy, but nothing in life is without risk. We often overestimate the risks. I think the Mormon church overestimates the risk involved in sexual fantasy.

Any good psychology major knows that sex is ten percent physical and ninety percent psychological. As to psychological stance that it helps relieve tension, they also admit that mediation and exercise can do the same.

I think there are needs above and beyond tension which masturbation can fulfill which meditation and exercise could not.

And ones body has a way of dealing with sexual tension on its own (ie: wet dreams).

Not everyone is capable of having wet dreams to relieve sexual tension (half the population at the very least ).

Masturbation can psychologically be viewed as an addition such as nail biting. So the notion of I can’t live without would be hard to prove to me.

I don’t think masturbation is something that can’t be lived without like eating and breathing. There are some who can go without. There are others who have a very difficult time refraining from the joys of self-love. I also don’t think there’s generally any harm in it, so why be abstinent if you don’t want to? Why berate and shame those who aren’t abstinent?

Humans have evolved far past many other animals. We easily have the ability, and is some peoples case the disability, to overcome desires and instincts (which humans seem to lack much in the way of instincts compared to other animals). I’m hungry but I’m fasting to assist my body in purging toxins. I know this stove burner is hot, but I’m going to leave my hand on it because I’m a masochists. We are evolved beings, or so we hope and claim.

I agree. There are many things which our animal nature pressures us to do. Human society relies on our ability to suppress or redirect some of those pressures into more productive channels. There are other pressures which we don’t try to overcome like breathing or swallowing. Where is masturbation in that picture? Is it something that we must completely suppress in order to be happy?

“Maintaining and nurturing a good sexual relationship can be difficult because it requires us to be selfless, to think outside of our own pleasure.” It’s interesting you point this out. Is not masturbation selfish? Does it please our partner?

We can’t do everything in life directly for our partner, despite romantic notions to the contrary. If we didn’t take time to recreate ourselves, we wouldn’t be much of a partner (speaking generally, not just about sex).

And despite old addictions that die hard, it is not a requirement. Masturbation is a sexual act that distracts from ones partner.

It can distract, especially when tied to shame. If we are ashamed of masturbation, we may pull away from our partner in order to hide our vulnerability. If we have unreasonable expectations about what sex should be (thanks a lot porn and romance novels!), masturbation may aid in retreating into a fantasy world where women are willing and ready or men are dark and dashing and sex is never awkward or messy. If we masturbate excessively, we may not have enough interest in our partner. So, yes, there are dangers but I don’t know that masturbation itself is the root of those problems; shame, unrealistic expectations, and intemperance are the root causes.

There are also benefits to masturbation which include not only stress reduction but also a boosted immune system, relief from menstrual cramps, reduced risk of prostate cancer, and so on. So the wise course seems to be one of moderation. Not too much, not too little, but just enough. Gives me ideas about how to use the story of Goldilocks as an object lesson.

And if one is seeking understanding, many philosophies talk about transcending the physical and the self in order to reach true enlightenment. I do like the old Japanese notion that pillowing is about as close to the gods as we get. OK, a little religion there.

If abstaining from masturbation helps in transcending the self, why not be celibate like Buddhist monks? Why would intercourse with a spouse be permissible when attempting transcendence and masturbation would not?

The desire to masturbate is not equivalent to being addicted to it no more than the desire to breathe is an addiction. Sexual addiction is about compulsion, excess, guilt, fear, a desire to be loved, disassociation, despair, and self-destruction. That is why I’m so distressed about how the Mormon church connects masturbation and shame: it turns a healthy, innocent behavior into something ugly and destructive.

I always love when people assume shame is always a bad thing. Morally, shame reminds us we have done wrong. More extremely, is stealing bad? Is killing in cold blood bad? Yet there are those who’ve overcome the guilt and no longer feel it. They must have achieved a cure over societal bondage. The other argument this always reminds me of is those who are always trying to debate the use of marijuana. I do it in my own home. It’s not gonna hurt anybody else. It’s not gonna affect anybody else. It’s a natural herb that’s just used to make me feel good. Oh, and let us not forget the medicinal purposes. I almost sounds like the same story just different subject.

Well, I feel finished off. On to another subject.

You do have a point about masturbation not being quite exactly essential for survival like breathing or even swallowing. So in that respect it’s not an apt comparison. I compared them not because masturbation is vital to everyone’s survival, but rather because trying to avoid masturbating can be detrimental to the psychological and sexual health of some people. I refer you to this case, for example. In that same thread is another person caught up in a dangerous cycle.

You’re right: all shame is not bad, only misplaced shame. I happen to believe that masturbatory shame is misplaced. Further, it isn’t natural. It has to be learned. A person’s conscience won’t send guilt signals unless the person has been taught to be ashamed.

Regarding marijuana, I’m afraid you’re using the wrong argument on me. Though I’ve never partaken and never plan too, I don’t think marijuana should be illegal. I mean if I can walk down to the corner store and buy tobacco and alcohol which are both much more addictive and harmful than marijuana, but I can’t buy marijuana, then I think we as a society are not seeing the situation clearly.

But that’s a discussion for another day. Thanks for your thoughts.

It is not only common but typical in a relationship for the partners to have somewhat mismatched libidos. Almost every long term relationship goes through phases where one partner is more frequently aroused than the other (and this may switch back and forth as to which one it is). Partners can’t always be there and be “on” for each other. I can think of nothing more selfish than to say to one’s partner “Sorry, you get no sexual release at all until I’m ready to give it to you.”

In a healthy relationship, the two partners remain individuals. It is reasonable and common to promise not to bring another person into the relationship (cheating), however that is very different from signing over your bodily autonomy, as if marriage means you no longer have the right to have your own separate body.

On the flip side of what you said, it would be unfair for one partner to demand attention whenever they desire it regardless of the feelings of the other.

I suppose someone could argue that one should resist the flesh but I would ask how does one know how far is too far. There are a lot of “fleshy” things we do and we dont consider them a sin as long as they are done in moderation and as long as we dont lose focus on the important things. For some people masturbation may be a bodily need, a release that needs to happen, just like people need to be loved, and have recreation. All three of these could be stated that technically they are not needs because one wont die without them but they can be essential to ones mental, physical, and emotional well being. Some people never make time to have recreation and dedicate all their time to work, church, or whatever. That is fine but not all people can live a life of peace and fulfillment if they dont have time for recreation.
There are some more comments I would like to share but I will quiet myself now and see if there is still any interest in this forum.

It can be hard to let go of the guilt especially when you’ve been trained to feel guilty about it all of your life. It’s not as easy as flipping a switch regrettably.

I have been thinking recently that it would be interesting to research the development of the idea of the infallibility of Mormon leadership. I don’t think I could do the subject justice, but I think the first real mention of it may be by Wilford Woodruff trying to justify the switch in doctrine regarding polygamy. It may be very important to help relieve feelings of guilt if we realize that the Brethren weren’t always considered infallible.

I think that the problem should be addressed. Just because a GA says something does not make it truth. They are men, albeit good men, inspiring men, and it is truly remarkable how they lead the church. But, there appeal to help Mormons be healthy and avoid masturbation is out of date. They either need to update their statements or let the members know as they did with birth control that we no longer need to make this a poing of emphasis except in our families when children need to be taught what is acceptable and appropriate behavior and what is not.

I sympathize with your pain and hope you can find a way to let go of it.

Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone came to speak at an encampment of Mormon Boy Scouts when I was 14. I remember him talking about masturbation and saying that studies have shown that if you can break a habit for three weeks, you can break it forever. He said that if we could go without masturbation for three weeks, we would be rid of it. Well, that proved overly optimistic.

Leaders stated that masturbation was a sin (an apparent statement of truth)

I’m curious. Why do you believe that masturbation is a sin? You say that all of the justifications that the General Authorities have given for avoiding masturbation were just opinions (and flawed opinions at that). So why isn’t the idea that masturbation is a sin also not just another opinion, like their opinions about birth control, which will be cast off with time?

I have currently exhausted my resources on this subject and I still feel dissatisfied; this has never happened to me after studying anything about the church.

I no longer believe that masturbation is a sin. That is my current personal opinion. It helped my masturbation problem change from an obsession that was tearing me down to a happy, healthy life. I still am not able to say this publicly because I have had a hardtime gauging the opinions of church authorities and membership; lets face it, this subject is not just taboo in the church but everywhere and therefore it makes it difficult to talk about. This subject came up with some friends one night and when I tried to explain some of the information that I had found they no longer wanted to talk about it because they felt uncomfortable. I pressed it a bit and they actually were glad that I had told them some of the information that I had found.

So…to directly answer your question; I no longer believe that it is a sin; at least that is where I stand at the current time.

It is my nature to have to look at both sides of the argument before making a conclusive statement of belief. That is why it is so hard for me to let go of the idea that masturbation could be a sin; but I also have found that I have a stronger resistance against lustful thoughts when I am to relieve myself on occasion.

Since the church appears to be determined to ignore the issue for now I am left to look at the pros and cons of the situation and see which side has the most benefits. Right now the pro-masturbators have a stronger argument. Go to any health website and you will find many of the benefits for both males and females. Go to any church website to find the cons and you only find that you are more prone to be gay, start up your factory, or end up on a list of current or past masturbators. Wow, would I rather avoid prostate cancer or fear starting up my factory that is already started up?

My experience has taught me that the strength of the church lies in its ability to be truthful about controversial doctrine about God, the Atonement, Polygamy, and priesthood. There argument about masturbation lack complete truth and that is why MY most pressing argument is that the church come out and make a fully truthful statement about the issue; whether it is in favor or against it doesnt matter as to the strength church’s position, it would only strengthen the position of the church.

they need to address this because they have not been completely factual in their statements. I hope they dont ignore this forever; maybe they wont address it until Boyd K. Packer dies. I dont know. (Don’t take this as me saying that I want him to die, i think he has given some great talks; just the masturbation talk was not very good and destructive for many people)

PS It was not a big deal to have to copy and paste; I just didnt know that it wouldnt work.

I wonder how many people are truly honest with themselves in regard to this. Everyone has to keep it a secret and pretend like none of the members do this. Trust me when I say that this is the most confessed sin among teenagers. They do, and many dont or cant stop, some do and that is great but what about everyone else. Are they just not destined to be accepted to the Celestial kingdom? How depressing is that? I used to think that. Scary huh.

I wish I could agree with Featherstones opinion about the 3 week rule. I made it but it came with a price. I couldnt even focus on school work because the tension was so great.

To close I would just like to say that health experts say it doesnt really matter if you masturbate or not. If you dont that cool. If you do that is cool too; just keep it private. If the church were to take a stand like this(it appears that they did for a short time of the church’s history) it would not mean that they would have to bend on every other morality issue(they could still be against porn, gambling, premarital sex, adultery, etc; they have scriptures and truth to support them in this), it would only mean that there would be far fewer people suffering with guilt in the church about such a normal but nonimportant aspect of life.

I hope its true, but I think Mormon attitudes about masturbation will shift just like the attitudes surrounding birth control. The church leadership is between a rock and a hard place. They couldn’t come out and say “All that stuff we said about masturbation being sinful? Yeah, that was a mistake.” That would only make people question other teachings. The church depends on the impression of infallibility to assert moral authority. If the membership can’t trust the leadership to be correct on any given topic, then they are left to think for themselves and seek out their own answers. This is what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both had in mind, but somehow the church lost that vision.

The ultimate problem with that is if we all start thinking for ourselves, there’s going to be a lot of different opinions, the influence of the Holy Spirit notwithstanding. What then do we need the church for? Priesthood ordinances and social interaction maybe?

It can be hard to hold together a group with very diverse opinions. That’s why the church leadership can’t openly admit mistakes. When the leadership recognizes a mistake, one trick is to stop talking about it and let people forget about it and then gradually start teaching something else or just drop the topic forever. This is what’s happened with birth control and oral sex, for example. This may be happening at this very moment with the “As man is, God one was / As God is, man may become” doctrine. Gordon B. Hinckley has gone on record twice recently saying like “There was a little couplet coined, ‘As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.’ Now that’s more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.” This might signal a change in direction for Mormon theology.

I agree with you as well that we were meant to seek out our own answers(that is how the church started; a boy with a question). I am not going to go search for the exact sources or references but I remember two statements by both Brigham Young and Joseph Smith Jr. that are applicable:

I give the members correct principles and they govern themselves (Joseph Smith)

Every man and woman can receive as strong of a testimony of Jesus Christ as any of the quorum of the 12(Brigham young)

These are not word for word(I am going off of memory), but they give general support of your comment.

I believe members are suppose to have different opinions. Part of the beauty of human life is the diversity that exists–including opinions. I believe that leadership should only teach correct principles. In most of the relatively new resources that the LDS church has in regard to how to teach; including Teaching No Greater Call and Preach My Gospel(new missionary manual); it is clear that Church leadership wants the members to speak about simple and plain truths and to stay true to the doctrine, not personal tangents and beliefs. Teach that which has been revealed. Then when people leave church they go home and “govern themselves.” You dont teach personal truths but truths found in scripture or church approved publishings.

Again, the problem with masturbation is that I dont see where the masturbation revelation ever occurred, and if it was a revelation why didnt they get it right in regard to health issues. First, there was moderation and then some GA’s stated, in their opinion, that it was wrong, then all of a sudden Packer speaks and it is doctrine. This is clearly influenced by McConkie and Kimball. Both stated their opinions in opinion books. Mormon Doctrine has been revised more times than I would care to count(hardly seems like a valid source) and Kimball was only a SP when he wrote his book. I do think they were trying to help and it was an innocent mistake. Mistakes happen, Joseph Smith had many ideas that never came to fruition the way he had planned. Peter and Paul had disagreements and were both apostles. There are plenty of examples of men and/or women who have been called of God and have made a misjudgment or two. It is normal, the only one that needed to be perfect was Jesus.

I do believe that if the church stepped up and showed some fortitude in this regard and presented it correctly that the church membership would be forgiving. Anyone who said that the church was suddenly not true just because a group of men made a mistake(s) is hardly fair when taken in full light and knowledge of follies of other God chosen people; this in my opinion tells me that these people would be being somewhat naive or ignorant in regard to church history.

I also believe that it is best for the leadership to teach the gospel in the most simple way possible. With the growing membership it is becoming virtually impossible to micromanage the members i.e. masturbation among other issues, many of which have been dealt with or forgotten. Scripture is clear in regard to the avoidance of adultery, fornication, lying, jealousy, the need of baptism, love, charity, and many other things; why try to explain anymore than these basic values. Anyway, that is just my opinion. I also see this as a general trend in reviewing the conference talks over the last century. Read any of the talks over the last ten years and you will see the very general teachings that are presented w/ very few exceptions.

the whole man to god; god was a man thing is worthy of its own forum. there is a lot of material there and as Hinckley said, it is pretty deep theology. I am not sure if it is the beginning of a potential move to change doctrine or simply an avoidance of the question in order to not have to dispute and argue over what certain scriptures mean. I would do this on my mission. Not because I couldnt answer the question but because I didnt want a fight and to take so much time to explain something that the other person would never agree with. But, you could be onto something there; I don’t know.

I have a question tho. I have mentioned this earlier a bit but How does fantasy during masturbation fit into the whole lust after another woman thing? Is it lusting? Just wondering what your opinion is(you did mention the cheerleaders, lol). My opinion regarding this is still developing so I wanted to hear what someone else had to say. What would be the difference between masturbation fantasies and porn+masturbation? I am just curious.

I don’t believe in “sin” anymore though I still believe in morality and empathy. So I’ll discuss fantasy from that angle. The question that troubles me is whether fantasizing about someone other than your committed partner is emotional infidelity. And if it is, where along the sexual attraction spectrum do we draw the line? For example, I don’t think that it is immoral for me to notice that a woman other than my wife is attractive. It’s almost impossible to avoid it. It’s hardwired into the heterosexual male mind. Beyond that the waters get murky for me. How long is it OK to dwell on that attraction? What kind of thoughts can I entertain? Can I feel sexually aroused and still be considered faithful? Where do I draw the line?

As a practical matter, all considerations of emotional fidelity aside, I think we can have a rich fantasy life while remaining faithful to our partner in physical fact. I think a woman could fantasize about men in uniform, for example, without jumping the next policeman who pulls her over for speeding. It is part of being an adult that we can hold more than one emotion at once and balance them in a productive way. Our hypothetical woman might be aroused by a good looking policeman walking up to her car, but being an emotionally mature person she allows her other emotions and her conscience to override any desire she might have to act on her attraction. That’s what the virtue of temperance is all about: managing mixed emotions with grace.

Now that I don’t believe in sin, I can be aroused by something but not worry about it. This means that I might see a beer ad full of bikini models one minute but forget about it within a short time after the commercial ends. Guilt due to sexual attraction or arousal would only serve to make me focus more on those bikini models. If I met a bikini model in person, I would be less likely to be obsessed with any sexual attraction that I would feel making me safer from physical infidelity.

You bring up an interesting question with regard to the difference between masturbation using pure fantasies versus masturbation using pornography. The chief problem with pornography, as far as I can see, is that it shapes and distorts our natural sexuality in many ways. It conditions us to expect certain body shapes and behaviors. It portrays sex as a no-strings-attached experience where pregnancy, disease, and emotional distress are never seen. We come to expect sexual gratification on demand. Those are the dangers that I see.

This distortion is great for those who sell pornography, because it is the sexual equivalent of junk food. It compels us to consume more and more to gratify our desires. Real life falls short of our expectations. It can destroy our ability to find sexual fulfillment in real life.

For both fantasy and viewing pornography, it seems that a little bit won’t hurt as long as we can keep it in moderation and understand its effects on us. Pornography, however, doesn’t seem necessary to our sexual health. I try to avoid it as a general, casual principle though I don’t worry if I see something arousing. I just try to refrain from seeking it out.

I found this artcile here: http://students.eng.fiu.edu/~denver/pdfs/Masturbation.pdf

I can’t say that I agree with everything that is said in the article but the beginning does a descent job in presenting credibility in the stance between lust and fantasy.

Now, I did want to quote something FYI mentioned.
it is clear that Church leadership wants the members to speak about simple and plain truths and to stay true to the doctrine, not personal tangents and beliefs. Teach that which has been revealed. Then when people leave church they go home and “govern themselves.” You dont teach personal truths but truths found in scripture or church approved publishings.
Now in my limitted knowledge and understanding of the Gospel, isn’t that what the Book of Mormon and even the occasional spot in the Doct. & Cov. has tried to beat into us? Even Christ preached plain and simple truths, for it’s easier for them to have milk than meat.

These new posts build on the same ideas I wrote in my comments above from last year. It’s kind of a coincidence since I didn’t review this thread when writing the new posts, but on the other hand this discussion probably inspired some of my ideas on the subject.

Also, speaking of masturbation slang, for ladies I liked “parting the Red Sea” — which you (Jonathan) used in the comments of another post. Even though this is your signature topic, it seems to come up a lot on my blog as well…

I like that slang and “shaking hands with the bishop” because both have a religious root. OK, so the bishop probably refers to the chess piece, but I thought it was funny.

Anyway, I have a post on my blog on the subject.

http://mormonzero.blogspot.com/2008/04/mormon-sexuality.html

And also an episodic story about a character who deals w/ this issue

http://mormonzero.blogspot.com/2008/05/mormon-superstar.html

Haha, a friend of mine says she likes to refer to it as “enjoying some good old fashioned southern hospitality.” I thought it was clever.

We seem to come at the topic of masturbation from different angles, but we seem to share the same conviction that masturbation need not be shameful. Knowing that you were once “Struggling”, I’m truly happy that you’ve found peace.

I don’t know if I had a point to my post, I’m just glad to see other members who have questions about it.

In my experience, when I stopped stressing about sexual media, its allure decreased. The less I worried about being aroused by TV, movies, etc., the less power it had over me.

I hope you find peace.

BTW, I just updated the link to the original article so that it works again.

I’ve also wondered why this issue is not discussed among the young women or the women of the church as much as it is with the men. Do they think women don’t do it as often? I don’t ever remember this being discussed in front of our young women’s group. I do remember them spliting the boys up from the girls once during a youth conference. I asked one of the boys afterwards what they talked about, they said they got the masturbation lecture.
I guess I just feel that sexual desire is something that is normal, after all we are told to multiply and replenish the earth, so there has to be some desire for that to happen. If you’re single you really don’t have an outlet for that desire. I guess when it becomes unhealthy is when it becomes an addiction and you start finding unhealthy outlets for that desire like porn.

That’s regrettable. I can imagine that LDS women who actually do feel sexual desire (i.e. almost all of them) feel like they aren’t living up to the idealized virginal portrait painted by their cultural expectations. They’re implicitly told that they are the gatekeepers of chastity, protecting men from their sinful selves; instead, the women find themselves wanting to join the men in storming the gates.

In case you haven’t discovered it, I posted a few months ago when masturbation became a hot topic on LDS blogs. The post has links to lots of interesting discussion.

Anyway, I guess that’s off the topic…Thanks again for your links and taking the time to hear me out.

Thanks again for your links and taking the time to hear me out.

My pleasure.

P.S The most dirty minded kids I knew growing up are married, while some of the most sensitive and religious kids ended up gay. Go Figure.

I agree with the usefulness of asking if something is interfering with important aspects of your life. I don’t think a positive answer is sufficient to call something an addiction, however.

I don’t think masturbation by itself is a problem. Masturbation combined with guilt or shame seem to be the precursors to real problems. Granted that adolescents may indulge so often that their lives become unbalanced. In my experience, if the sin-guilt-repent-abstain-temptation-sin cycle is out of the picture, then excessive masturbation loses it’s fun, as Green Day put it. Masturbation without guilt finds a natural balance.

Add guilt into the mix, and it becomes a huge drama that consumes emotional energy and interferes with life.

LDS folks are probably no more virtuous and chaste than everyone else.

Also, care to back up your assertion that people are accountable to God with real evidence?

God Loves us all, the atonement is real. I just don’t knowhow to say words in your language but I hope and pray that we’ll all be guided by one language even the language of the Spirit.

I realize that you’re trying to spread the good word. What you don’t seem to understand is that many of us have followed LDS leaders as if their words came direct from God. Following their counsel which we believed to be inspired cause us years of pain and heartache.

Speaking for myself, when I stopped listening to LDS leaders and started listening to the inner voice of my conscience, I was finally at peace.

Coming here to spread the word that masturbation is a sin is like bringing the plague into a home twice cursed by its blight. Mormon teachings on masturbation have been a pollution and an abomination in my life that I’m happy to be rid of.

You say that you know that the GAs are prophets. Please read my post Feelings and share how you “know” such things. This blog isn’t the place for proselyting unless you plan to back up your unsupported assertions.