Silence of the Lambs
My wife and I were putting our daughters into bed last night when my oldest (almost four-years-old) started talking about death and dying. She learned about death primarily when we went to visit my father-in-law’s family graves last year. We’ve always been upfront with her, trying to explain what death is and that everyone will die someday. She has had some strange ideas that we try to iron out, like she first thought that the dead people in the cemetery were inside the trees, but she’s assimilated the idea of death pretty well.
She’s never seemed particularly frightened by death. Perhaps that is because she’s never come face-to-face with human death or because she doesn’t yet comprehend the full implications. I like to think some of her fearlessness is because of her parents’ openness and composure when discussing death.
Last night, after we sang our bedtime songs, she started talking about death. I don’t remember exactly how the conversation progressed, but at one point she said something like “We put nails in dead people, don’t we.”
My heart sank.
My wife still wants our children to attend the Mormon church and to be taught the Mormon beliefs. I won’t deny her that because I understand that it is I who has changed. I had never really regretted our understanding about church attendance up to this point. The people in my daughters’ Primary are loving and kind and great people all around. I trusted that they wouldn’t do anything to harm my daughters.
But then I hear my daughter talking about nails in dead people, resurrection, and crucifixion. As a Mormon, I would have been proud to hear my three-year-old throwing around the word “resurrection” in correct context. Instead a realization hit me.
The reason I had started down my path to better my relationship to God was so that I could protect my daughters from hearing my lies when I professed a belief in something that I didn’t truly know to be true. I wanted to protect their impressionable minds from tainted information. It was for their sake that I started on the path which surprisingly led me to agnostic atheism. Yet my change of heart has been insufficient to protect them.
I’ve hoped for a sort of equal-time approach to teaching our children. They would learn that Mommy believes this, and Daddy believes that. Yet that isn’t how it has worked out so far. I can never bring myself to contradict my wife and say “I don’t believe in resurrection. When people die, they don’t ever come back.” I worry about the confusion that they will feel when they try to reconcile that Mommy and Daddy don’t believe the same things.
We had tried to give my daughter good, healthy information about death. She was slowly comprehending it, so far without fear.
It made me sad because I finally realized what is happening to my daughter. Every time we turn her over to her Primary class, her young, open mind is being filled with ideas based on fear. She never expressed any fear of death. Why does she need the resurrection to alleviate a concern she doesn’t now have and may never have?
In that moment when I realized what she had been taught, I felt like my little girl’s unprotected mind had been violated, and I had stood by and done nothing to intervene.
Do we teach our children these things so early because we know it would be difficult for them to believe them later when their mental defenses are up? Why can’t we teach them to think for themselves and allow them to make adult decisions when they are adults? Most relevantly, what can I do to balance out the teachings which I disagree with while showing respect to my wife?
Tags: Atheism, belief, church, death, education, family, fear, LDS, marriage, mindfuck, Mormonism, religion
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April 17, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
And when I think that she will be learning about sin and shame and guilt, my heart wilts. I can see no other purpose in teaching these things than for the sheep to keep each other in the fold through the control that fear and shame enable. I went through the same process and I suffered for many years because of it.
I spoke euphemistically in my post. Let me rectify this oversight. I feel like my daughter’s mind is being raped, only with the best of intentions, of course. Inculcating gratuitous fear and shame in an untainted mind must be described in no less strident terms. I am conflicted about those who unwittingly transmit the disease of a toxic faith. If only my daughters could go unscathed.
How can I spare them the pain of superstition?
April 17, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
This sounds like it would make the great basis for a Sunstone session. You could pitch the idea to Dan Wotherspoon and I’m sure he could help you to round up some mixed-faith couples with children to share their ideas. You might also consider listening to Heidi Hart’s past sessions from Sunstone. She left the church and became a Quaker a few years ago but her husband and children are active in the church.
For us, we discovered that our kids didn’t buy into what they’d heard in Primary–that it just didn’t ring true to their beliefs about the world. They played along while they were are at church but questioned the gospel openly at home. the hardest thing for me was that John and I both pressured the kids to be baptized when they turned 8 even though neither wanted to. It just seemed the “right thing” for us to do. My complicity in that still haunts me.
April 18, 2007 @ 11:52 am
Jana,
That sounds like it would be interesting but at the same time quite a commitment of time. [sigh]
In case anyone wants to see my adorable brood in action, my wife has posted some pictures of them at the park with our family friend, Anna.
My oldest daughter and I were looking at a book about the human body last night. She saw a photograph of a skeleton excavated at an archaeological site. She started talking about Jesus coming to resurrect people. This time I expressed my views to her (possibly because my dear wife wasn’t there to chime in before I could). I tried to get across that some people, Mommy included, believe that Jesus will resurrect people, but that I didn’t think that was true. In typical three-year-old fashion, she asked a string of why questions. I tried to answer them. The conversation ended with me saying something like “I don’t think Jesus will come and resurrect people.” She responded “I think he will.”
And with that, I was satisfied and left it at that. I felt like she heard what I had to say, and she made a choice. I’m proud of her that she is willing to believe something contrary to me even though I hope she will change her mind with time.
My angst for my children may turn out unfounded, but I’m like my mother: I tend to worry.
G said,
April 23, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Jonathan… thanks for commenting on my post (sunbeams), and especially for linking to your blog. to a degree these are exactly the issues I struggle with… how to deal with explaining to my son that I believe differently than his primary teacher. How to explain to our son that mom and dad believe different things. And will he still have a desire to seek God after those confusing intersections?..
anyway,
thanks!
April 23, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
G,
Thanks for stopping by. Let me know if you figure something out about how to deal with undesirable teachings in Primary. There don’t seem to be any easy answers.
marinamo said,
April 24, 2007 @ 4:35 am
I was an ardent believer when my kids were your daughter’s age. Before my oldest daughter was 2 years old, she could tell you the story behind every picture in the BOM (the blue missionary one). She would walk around saying, “yea, verily it came to pass”. I was so proud. Skip a few years and a lot of life experiences: at age 12, this same daughter changed the radio station anytime a song with a swear word came on–and if I liked the song and made her leave the tuner alone, she plugged her ears. She refused to play with face cards because she had learned via YW that the prophets had said she shouldn’t. I knew as a good LDS mother I should be proud, but all I could think was, “what have I done to my daughter?” Skip a few more years and yet more life experience: I am no longer an ardent believer. I had a lot of fear about the affect my choice not to believe would have on my daughters, and it is true the final verdict is not out (they are 16 and 14 now), but with a great deal of pride I can say that my daughters are good, kind, moral, tolerant, intelligent girls who think for themselves and choose their value system and beliefs not based on religion but based on knowledge and life experience and the advice of their parents and other people they trust.
I think it is important that you continue to explain to your daughter where you differ with the teachings she is receiving elsewhere. I would say it is very important that you do so in a way that offers your version as the way you see it–not as truth–so that you are not disrespecting your wife nor putting your daughter in a position where she has to choose between Daddy’s Way and Mommy’s Way. What it will teach her is that there is more than one way to see things, and that even when people believe different things they can still get along (how much better our world would be if more children were raised to believe that!).
Well, this is the first time I have ever posted on a stranger’s blog and I am not sure how I will feel about it when I hit submit…but I thought my story might offer you some hope.
April 24, 2007 @ 7:56 am
Thank you, marinamo. Your experience is definitely helpful.
The things you mention—awareness of differing viewpoints and mutual respect between people of differing beliefs—are truly what I want for my daughters. I don’t want them to pick Daddy’s Way, but rather to think for themselves. If they do that, I’ll be happy no matter what they believe. It’s bound to be different than my beliefs anyway, and I’m bound to be wrong about some things so I hope they can see that and correct their own beliefs.
My worry (now that you’ve made me think about it) stems not necessarily from doctrines that I find absurd or even reprehensible, but rather from the anti-intellectual and anti-freethought culture that they are being inducted into. I am trying to build up their critical thinking skills while the LDS culture is trying to kill them before they are even born. That is the root of my concern, I think.
April 24, 2007 @ 8:32 am
By the by, G was talking about a post over at Feminist Mormon Housewives.
Janell said,
April 24, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
I can understand your concerns. I now look back at when I was baptized at age 8 and wonder what in the world I was thinking. I choose this event, as it is a quite a significant decision that Mormon children are expected to make. At the time, my understanding of what I was committing myself to was elementary at best. Primary taught me watered-down teachings, but my parents had taught me how to make my own decisions.
Primary teachers often seems to lean more towards indoctrination than teaching, so parents must strive to teach their children. In primary, my primary teachers had taught me the basic doctrines, had answered my basic questions (and shunned the more difficult ones), and had emphasized that baptism was what I was supposed to do. Fortunately, my parents taught me how to think for myself, how to find answers for myself, and how to make my own decisions.
This is not to say Primary is counter-productive. No, the organization is sufficient for reinforcing good values, learning basic teachings and scripture stories, and for allowing children an opportunity to learn with their peers.
The cure for the Mormon culture’s* apparent discouragement of free thought is to do exactly what you’re doing. Teach your daughter what you and your wife each believe, give her the resources to make her own decisions, listen to her concerns and questions, answer them to the best of your ability and belief, iron out her misunderstandings, and support her decisions.
It is difficult to recall my exact perspective when I was 7. Yes, I didn’t have the knowledge or experience of a grown-up and – to an extent – I wish I had had a grown-up’s perspective, but what I did have was sufficient to make my own decisions.
Thanks for the post and for the link from FMH. It is nice to have your perspective to supplement my understanding of the challenge of teaching young children and Primary’s impact on the teaching process.
* I must emphasize that this is a cultural deficiency and not a doctrinal deficiency.
April 24, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
You’re all making me feel better about the situation. I hope my calm is justified.
The topic of the LDS church/culture and their relationship to freethinking could be a whole other discussion. There are a lot of good materials already available. Maybe I’ll have to review them soon.
Steve Graham said,
April 24, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
Your experience works both ways.
I have 5 children and 4 of them were already married when their mother left me, at least partially because I no longer believed as she did. The odd thing is I had not quit believing in the Gospel or Joseph as a prophet. Rather I was rediscovering teachings which he and others had taught which were not shared anymore and discovering the apparent discordance between the Church then and now. One child already believed as I did – we had sort of taken the journey together. 2 did not wish me to speak to them of religion, which request I mostly honored for a while. And the other 2 were not part of the Church any longer, so I’m not sure what impact my change had on them.
It has been hard not speaking with them of the thing which I (and presumably they) most treasure. Thankfully, the frost has mostly thawed. And the love still shines through.
Steve
April 24, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
In the end, it’s most important for me to walk through life with those closest to me, led by truth and love. I don’t need for them to believe as I do. As Morpheus said, “My beliefs don’t require them to.”
Steve, I hope the frost will be completely thawed for you. It really sucks that religion can divide families.
Lessie said,
April 24, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Jonathan, I’m over from fMh. I appreciated your comments and relate to this post. I”m really not sure about most of the things I used to believe and it worries me that my son is being indoctrinated before he has even had a chance to wonder where he came from, where he’ll go, etc. I, however, am still somewhat cynical about the whole issue and have considered not sending him anymore.
April 24, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
I would pull my children in a heartbeat if it was solely up to me, but I’m pretty confident in my beliefs. For those who are struggling to resolve their concerns, it’s not so easy. As some of us have mentioned, it’s not as simple as keeping your children home. It’s never that simple in Mormonism. Going against the grain like that is perceived as one step away from apostasy. Social norms are given the force of divine will. Keeping your child out of Primary is tantamount to handing over your family to Satan.
Not every Mormon sees things that way, but the peer pressure to stay active is undeniable.
Lessie said,
April 25, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
No kidding. I currently live in a small, church university town and don’t even know any non-members, much less people who aren’t sure about Christianity. All my friends are LDS, all my family are LDS, and most of them consider a questioning of beliefs paramount to betrayal. So yes, peer pressure, social pressure, whatever you want to call it, is keeping my son in primary right now while I try to decide what I really believe. It just irritates me, that as you said, his critical thinking skills are being burned at the stake of indoctrination.
April 25, 2007 @ 9:10 pm
Wow. To go against all that Mormon-ness would require real pioneer spirit.
When I left the church, I didn’t fear for my employment and I was sure that I could find another set of friends close at hand. All of my worries centered only on my family. The LDS church never felt more like a cult than when I began to leave. All of a sudden, I realized that all my close, personal relationships were bound up in Mormonism, and friendships based around the LDS church are easily lost when the church is taken out of the picture.
Lynn said,
April 29, 2008 @ 11:07 pm
Wow…I usually don’t post to much at all…but, I can see a lot of questioning that I have as an adult as well in so many of these posts. I was also baptized at 8 years old. I was innocent, and knew it was the ‘thing to do’. I had been taught that. Now, after not going to church since age 12, I look back and think to myself, “did I really understand and KNOW what I was signing up for”? I do not believe I did. I had a child’s view…nothing more. I followed my Father. He was my hero. I loved the church and those in it as well. I was surrounded by kind/loving people. Even when my Father died when I was 12, I was surrounded by the church members love. I adored them…it was my World. I do however believe that I was too young to fully understand at the age of 8 baptism. Maybe some children it is appropriate for but, I do not believe any of us are at the same levels mentally or, emotionally at that age or any age really.
I know that children are taught by example and learning but, I did see a Fast & Testimony meeting where a Father took all 4 of his children to the podium to bare their testimony. He of course had to coax the tiniest with helpful words for them. I found it touching BUT, I also had a flash of children (including myself at that age) being told what to say….coaxed along. I was saddened by what I saw. I know best intentions were there but, I felt as though the kids were just simply repeating what was said to them to say. *sigh*….looking back at myself, I think it was the very same way for me too. HOW can any parent help their child have an understanding of the Gospel for themselves without coaching? I don’t know the answers to that. I wish I did. It might help me now that I am struggling with what I was raised as a small girl to believe in. I question every part of any religion now. Not the belief in God but, the rest of the many ordinances and beliefs. I am always asking WHY.
Struggling with the only thing that made me feel safe, secure, and truly loved as a child if VERY hard.
I feel as though I am just expected to believe sometimes. Simple….I was taught as a little girl so, what’s my problem. *sigh* frustrating.
April 30, 2008 @ 9:16 am
Lynn,
I sympathize with your desire to believe. There are a lot of good things in the Mormon church that I wanted to be a part of. But being accepted into the community requires that we believe certain things: the prophetic call of Joseph Smith, the inspired guidance of the current leadership, etc. Not only are we expected to believe, but we are expected to believe that we know. Those beliefs—and the actions that follow therefrom—are the price paid to be part of the community.
Yet many of us struggle to believe in these things that don’t make sense to us. There are so many little evidences that come to our awareness that collectively make it impossible for us to believe completely. We feel like outcasts on the fringes of the community because we can’t honestly say that we know or believe. Perhaps we avoid the subject and try to quietly fit in and hope that no one will notice. Or perhaps we just don’t even try to participate in the community, all the while missing it and feeling like we are less worthwhile than those who believe.
Our dilemma is between holding honestly to what we see and being accepted into the community.