I’m Going to the Celestial Kingdom!
I just realized that if I’m wrong about Mormonism and it actually is the truth, then my disbelief and forsaking temple covenants doesn’t matter. I’m going to the Celestial Kingdom, baby!
Incredible? Here’s proof (as quoted in Hope for Parents of Wayward Children):
The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught a more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God. (Orson F. Whitney, in Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110)
Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang. (Brigham Young quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:90–91)
If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity. (Lorenzo Snow in Collected Discourses, comp. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. [1987–92], 3:364).
My parents are pretty faithful, though I don’t want to put any pressure on them. I’ve worried them enough, I’m sure. There’s got to be at least one of my ancestors that I can count on to save me from the hell that is the Terrestial and Telestial Kingdoms: I’ve got at least five or six generations of Mormons on every branch of my family tree.
If all that Mormon ancestry fails me, I can always fall back on faithful Father Adam—who is Michael the Archangel and certainly faithful enough to save his posterity.
So there you have it. I can have my cake and eat it too. I’m going to the Celestial Kingdom.
(Thanks to Deconstructor on RfM for the quotes. I knew I’d heard this from somewhere, but had a hard time scrounging up the authoritative citations.)
Tags: exaltation, LDS, Mormonism, religion, salvation
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April 29, 2008 @ 12:37 pm
So basically, the great divide between Mormonism’s works and Evangelical’s grace is a net/net illusion. Heh.
Ya gotta give it to Mormonism though, where you get both the assurance of salvation in Jesus and the right to claim “little s” saviorhood for self … so long as you remain true and faithful.
BTW, let’s not forget that the CK also has divisions. My guess is that your faithful relative will be a god and to have plural wives (regardless of Pres. Hinckley’s belated claim about either benefit) while you get to be a ministering angel, forever making the Mon-Fri business trip to the nether kingdoms.
Dude, that sucks.
April 29, 2008 @ 12:47 pm
Yeah, those most of those promises were pretty vague about what it meant for parents to save their children. It’s just like them to make big promises while crossing their fingers behind their back. There is still one ray of hope:
I’ve added that emphasis to the original post.
Of course this statement seems to be unorthodox in at least one aspect: resurrection is supposed to be free to all, no? Why then does Lorenzo Snow seem to hold out resurrection as the reward of a faithful life?
Anyhow, I still say I’ve got it made.
Travis said,
April 29, 2008 @ 7:01 pm
Hey Jonathan,
This is paranoidfr33k with my new name.
Since I’ll be telling my family soon, these quotes will be gold. I can tell my faithful parents that its OK if I no longer believe because their faithfulness will get me to their goal no matter what I do.
Your right about the resurrection… everyone gets that no matter what. We all live forever no matter what. Well, thats what I used to believe anyway.
Thanks for the info.
Epic Swell » Blog Archive » I’m Saved… No Really! said,
April 29, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
[...] Jonathon Blake always comes up with the best info: [...]
Seth R. said,
April 29, 2008 @ 7:49 pm
Face it Jonathon,
Once a Mormon, always a Mormon.
April 29, 2008 @ 8:08 pm
Yeah, that phrase “the tentacles of Divine Providence” is certainly ominous. Sounds like a Christian-themed H.P. Lovecraft novel. No escape from the tentacles of Mormon salvation.
April 29, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
No way man, I am aiming for OD, they can’t make me go. Maybe they will kick me out for becoming a Buddhist.
April 30, 2008 @ 8:22 am
It is inaccurate to characterize telestial and terrestrial glory, described by Joseph Smith, as hell. Moreover, it is incomplete to think of salvation, described by Joseph Smith, as a merely individual matter. We, as a community, are not transcending the telestial glory in which we now live until we do what is necessary to change the world for the better. So far as I am concerned, no one is going to outer darkness — it’s a warning intended for social engineering, as indicated in D&C 19. Jonathan, if I have any say in the matter, I’ll be dragging your butt into whatever glory I can create or discover, even if we have to start from hell.
April 30, 2008 @ 8:55 am
Wayne,
I don’t know if you can resist the tentacles of Divine Providence. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Lincoln,
I think you’ll have to agree that the lesser glories are at least damnation the way most Mormons view them. They view these glories as the eternal repository of those unworthy of the celestial glory. The sinners’ progression is stopped, or in other words, they are damned.
However, there is the upbeat note that this doctrine when combined with the righteousness of Adam implies near universalism (i.e. almost everyone goes to the Celestial Kingdom).
April 30, 2008 @ 9:06 am
Most Mormons don’t know our own theology well enough. If telestial glory is damnation, we’re already damned, as we’re now living in a telestial glory, according to Brigham Young. The more accurate depiction of Mormon theology is that no matter where progression stops, whether in the telestial or the celestial glory, that is damnation. D&C 130 teaches that there are higher glories than the celestial. The point, then, is not the literally specific three glories. The point is eternal progression, which is yet simplified into three degrees of glory to set our minds toward a more advanced understanding than that represented by the even simpler heaven and hell dichotomy, taught in traditional Christianity as well as the earliest forms of Mormonism — pre-Nauvoo.
April 30, 2008 @ 10:04 am
Interesting about D&C 130, though it’s not exactly clear whether the higher kingdoms a greater in glory or whether they were just higher in the divine hierarchy (e.g. Kolob where God dwells is a celestial glory but will govern the sanctified, celestial earth).
On this note, back a few years ago I realized that D&C 76:89–90 implies that Joseph understood that we on earth aren’t part of the telestial glory. The telestial glory must be revealed to us. The word “reveal” implies that there is a veil between us and the telestial glory. I even made a diagram of how I came to understand that scripture.
Jason Richards said,
April 30, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
Of course you’re going to the Celestial Kingdom. It’s not a question of if, but rather of when. Eternity’s a long time…………………………
April 30, 2008 @ 6:39 pm
And truth be told, we’re already there. We just need to wake up to it.
May 1, 2008 @ 7:20 am
Heh, I may be able to resist; unless it feels good…….
If the celestial is ruled by dualistic thinking I may be required to go there. lol
May 1, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
Re: Yeah, that phrase “the tentacles of Divine Providence†is certainly ominous. Sounds like a Christian-themed H.P. Lovecraft novel.
Actually it’s a reference to FSM. Even if you think you’re talking about a different religion, his noodly appendage will touch you.
May 2, 2008 @ 7:49 am
“Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return.”
This reminds me of a teaching I read about a Buddhist teaching about the six realms of existence. In the Heaven realm and Hell realm, plus the other four in between realms, there are Bodhisattvas ready to teach the inhabitants of each realm to awaken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms
May 5, 2008 @ 8:04 am
Setting aside the supernatural aspects and the Buddhist dogmas surrounding the Bodhisattva concept, working for the awakening of the universe is a worthwhile way to spend a life.
Oh, and the tentacles of divine providence certain sounds more like our friend the FSM.
May 5, 2008 @ 8:06 am
My wife mentioned that the tentacles quotation was actually cited in the stake conference adult meeting last weekend.
May 6, 2008 @ 7:50 am
Travis/paranoidfr33k,
Your comment got caught in my spam filter. Sorry. Good luck telling your parents, though I doubt the quotes will actually comfort them in the moment.
May 8, 2008 @ 10:35 pm
[...] 8, 2008 by markii jonathan and EricSwell posted on some quotes guaranteeing the exaltation of all descendents of temple sealed [...]
autumn said,
October 27, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
you know what they say. . once you go Mormon. . you never go black.
wait, what?
Jonathan Blake said,
October 27, 2008 @ 9:09 pm
Kichiyou said,
July 6, 2010 @ 1:53 pm
Like someone above mentioned, it’s not the “where” it’s the “when”. &, yes, “eternity” certianly a LONG time. Aka “there IS no beginning or ending. There IS no ‘go home from work’ clock.” So, wouldn’t it be easier to do the ‘work’ now, rather than, say, over the course of millions of yrs, whilest things are easiest? Just a thought. ;p
Also, just a side note: The idea of “Don’t worry. I’ll be there..eventually” is comforting, yes. But, as a father, it’s MORE comforting to know my children won’t ‘suffer’ AS long, if they follow the Christ-given example now, rather than ‘in a few milinia’ lol. But, if yall (& same goes for my children, if they choose such), wish to come home ‘hungry & battle-scared’ rather than ‘bathed, cleaned, & scarless’, pursay, Good luck to ya. I’ll be on the sidelines w/ yall’s saintly-ancestors rooting ya on. In fact, I think I’ll be glad to be one of the ‘ministering angels’ to help ya go from point Z to point A. *winks*
Jonathan said,
July 6, 2010 @ 2:19 pm
Of course, this was said with tongue in cheek since I don’t expect there is a Celestial Kingdom. I bet you realized this, but I want to make sure.
Anyway, you seem like a nice person. In case it turns out that the Muslims are right about things instead of the Mormons, I’ll see you in Hell. We’ll do lunch. I hear they have great BBQ.
Kichiyou said,
July 9, 2010 @ 2:33 pm
This is just a re-cap on the email convo Johnathan & I had. I figured there were some things good for ‘others’ to know, should they come here. XD
Kichiyou wrote: *softly laughs* Thanks for the info. I would say the statement ‘mormon=polytheo’ is wrong. But, I can see that many might misinterprit the whole ‘Christ is the Son of God, & has His own body, just as you & I, are in seperate bodies’ mixed w/ the ‘empire- concept’ (that is, ‘like many earthly kingdoms, where one is ruler over a portion, but gives alliegance to another’).
Especially in the idea of ‘Shirek’. Lol. Guess we’ll never really know ‘perfect expectations’ pursay, til we die. Or, until the ‘day of judgement’, when it comes.
Purhaps I may be wrong, but, I’m thinking it all lies ‘in the heart’ pursay. That is, if ye have dedicated yourself to the ‘purpose’ that is called ‘God’, ye cannot fail, although there may be ‘traditons/ideas’ that were/were not (both concepts) needed. Lol.
Johnathon wrote:
Well, if Islam is the true religion and Mohammad was God’s prophet,
then Mormons are guilty of unforgivable sin of Shirk
because they believe
in many gods ruling over many worlds, and I’m a confirmed infidel
(i.e. I don’t believe in God/Allah). So if Islam is true, then we’re
both screwed.
Kichiyou wrote:
I’m not quite sure what ya mean by the ‘muslims right’ part. Lol. If ya would, do explain. Tbh, I know least abbot the muslims, than I do most other religions. Lol.
Well, except the fact they’re related, litterally, to the jewish ppl. That is, they’re of the same ancestry, w/ the division being ~around the time of solomon.
Jonathan wrote:
Of course, this was said with tongue in cheek since I don’t expect there is a Celestial Kingdom. I bet you realized this, but I want to make sure.
Anyway, you seem like a nice person. In case it turns out that the Muslims are right about things instead of the Mormons, I’ll see you in Hell. We’ll do lunch.