Head Full of Fluff
I recently found some rather amusing and unflattering parodies of the Mormon thought process (via Floating in the Milk). I recognize many of those thought patterns in myself and in the discourse of other members of the LDS church. I thought like this once. Here are a few of my favorites, handpicked for their relevance to me, and edited to my personal taste. I tried to make them less parody and more analysis.
Argument from warm fuzzies
- The Book of Mormon makes vague promises about good feelings which would show me that the words of the Book of Mormon are true.
- I sometimes have good feelings when I read it and pray about the Book of Mormon.
- Therefore the church is true.
This is my own contribution to the list. It’s a complete non sequitur. What makes it worse is that as a Mormon I allowed the Book of Mormon to tell me how to determine that the Book of Mormon is God’s word. I trusted it to tell me how to test its own truthfulness.
Argument from Anti-Mormonism
- Satan wants to destroy the true church.
- Anti-Mormons have all kinds of evidence that the church is false.
- This evidence is very destructive to the claims of the church.
- Anything which might destroy the church comes from Satan.
- Therefore the church is true.
This circular reasoning really frustrates me. No matter what evidence is brought against the claims of the church, it is all perceived as the work of the devil precisely because of the fact that it contradicts the claims of the church. The evidence is often discounted on that basis alone, prima facie. This line of reasoning makes Mormons immune to all contradictory evidence no matter how valid that evidence may be.
Argument from the round earth
- People once thought the Earth was flat.
- The Earth was actually round.
- Therefore all modern science, including archeology, is probably wrong when it contradicts the teachings of the church.
- Therefore the church is true.
I used this thought process to assuage many doubts that arose due to scientific evidence which contradicted the claims of Mormonism.
Argument from The Three Nephites
- There are three immortal white guys called the Three Nephites who have been walking around North America for 2000 years.
- Some Native American legends talk about “white ghosts”.
- I bet those stories are about the Three Nephites!
- Therefore the church is true.
I hear this kind of cherry-picking of historical evidence all the time at church: flood stories, Quetzalcoatl, etc. get used to demonstrate the ancient roots of Mormonism.
The Mormon Cosmological argument
- Something caused the universe to exist.
- It wasn’t God, because he is part of a society of Gods.
- It wasn’t his God, because he is part of a long line of Gods.
- What was it?
- It must have been something!
- Therefore the church is true.
I was always told as a Mormon to avoid delving into the mysteries of godliness. This warning translates into “Don’t ask so many questions (especially ones we don’t have answers for).” Why did I allow myself to be cowed into not asking more questions?
Argument from evil
- God has a plan for everything.
- He must allow bad things to happen because we learn and grow from them.
- Yes, even small children who were chopped up by machetes in Rwanda while their mothers watched.
- Yes, even the kids who were sent to the ovens in Nazi Germany.
- Horrible things do happen to innocent people, just as God planned!
- Therefore the church is true.
This is more of a defense against the problem of evil than a real argument for the truth of Mormonism.
Argument from my testimony
- You claim to not have a testimony.
- But the only reason you say that is so you can sin like Hugh Hefner.
- Deep down, you know the church is true. You’re just in denial.
- Therefore the church is true.
Even if no one says this out loud, to my face, I know many Mormons believe this about me and will continue to believe it no matter how much I protest.
Argument from numbers
- There are millions of Mormons.
- Millions of people believe in Mormonism.
- Millions of people can’t be wrong.
- Therefore the church is true.
- Therefore the Roman Catholic church is false.
There are some interesting trends in the statistics which the church publishes: raw growth, raw number of converts, converts per missionary, and percentage growth are all in long-term downward trends. Judging from the number of people I see at church on Sunday when compared to the list of members, extrapolating recklessly to the entire church, I would expect only about 4 million people bother to show up to church in a given month (the church’s benchmark for religious activity), far fewer than the 12 million names-on-the-church-records number that the church trumpets every General Conference. I actually think 4 million is a rather generous number. Another point: The LDS church is not the fastest growing church in the world.
Argument from obvious falseness—actually used by Nibley!
- Joseph Smith’s tale is obviously absurd.
- Joseph Smith wasn’t a complete idiot.
- If he was going to make stuff up he wouldn’t make it look obviously false.
- Therefore Joseph Smith wasn’t lying.
- Therefore the church is true.
Argument from personal incredulity
- I can’t believe Joseph Smith made the whole thing up. He wasn’t educated enough to come up with all those names and places.
- Who could do that? Certainly not me.
- Therefore the church is true.
Also seen in this variant: I personally have no good explanation for the existence of the Book of Mormon therefore the church is true. The lack of a really good explanation doesn’t mean that we must accept any of the equally poor alternatives.
Argument of ancestral sacrifice
- Your ancestors gave up everything for the church.
- One would not give up so much for something false.
- Therefore the church is true.
This assumes that our ancestors had better information than we do. Our Mormon ancestors also believed in men living on the moon and the surface of the sun.
Argument from Joe’s contribution
- Joseph Smith explained so many things.
- Nobody has given so many clear explanations (save Jesus).
- Therefore the church is true.
The explanations are only clear if you are asking the approved questions. Stray too far from that path and questions cease to have satisfactory answers.
Argument from crabs in a basket
- I am a General Authority pretending to be a special witness for Christ.
- The other General Authorities seem convinced they really are special witnesses.
- Sure as hell! I am not going to be the first to admit I am bluffing.
- Therefore the church is true.
I am positive that many General Authorities are sincere, but once they’re called as General Authorities, they are expected to project an image of certainty. There must be tremendous social pressure to play the part even if they really don’t feel like they’re any better qualified to be a witness for Christ than the average member. I can easily imagine a man being called as an Apostle thinking to himself “But I’ve never had a revelation of Jesus Christ that would justify being called an ‘Apostle’.” The man accepts his calling on the faith that the Lord would qualify whom he calls and waits patiently for something that would justify his calling as a special witness of Christ. Time goes on and he settles into his role and never receives that special witness, but his worries are swallowed up in the busy-ness of his calling.
This is pure speculation I admit, but this follows the pattern in my own life, even when I was called as an Elders Quorum President (which calling I never served in—long story). I’m simply extrapolating to Bishops, Stake Presidents, and (why not?) Apostles.
Argument from disasters
- The scriptures predict that calamities and wickedness will befall the earth before Christ’s second coming.
- The world is in the worst shape ever.
- Therefore the church is true.
This is another argument that I added to the list. The problem with this argument—other than that it is a non sequitur like all of the other arguments—is that it the world is not necessarily in the worst shape ever. It is just as easy to argue that we are all better off than ever. It depends on how you look at the data.
The truth is that I didn’t use these arguments to find out truth, but rather to rationalize my foregone conclusions. I wanted Mormonism to be the truth, so I found intellectually dishonest ways to shore up my beliefs. I’m pretty sure that I knew better, but I went along anyway. My own fears and desires kept me in a church which taught things that I couldn’t believe while being honest with myself.
Are there any other arguments that have been missed?
Tags: belief, cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, doubt, faith, fear, homosexuality, Joseph Smith, LDS, mindfuck, Mormonism, religion, satire, skepticism, superstition
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June 12, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Too much … too much here … head … gonna … ‘splode!!!
Here’s another, though admittedly a corner case … but really, aren’t they all?
“My brother’s mission companion’s ex-girlfriend’s mother’s patriarchal blessing says that she’ll live to see Jesus which sends tingles down my spine ’cause she’s waaaay older than me which means I’ll probably be around too… and the church is so true!”
-or-
My high school seminary teacher’s son’s mission companion’s father who is serving in a secret mission to the Jews in Jerusalem had a vision of a yellow dog roaming about the streets of Nauvoo which means the second coming already took place … in fact, the council at Adam-ondi-ahmen must have taken place before the Nauvoo temple was resurrected from the ashes … such beautiful symbolism … and now we are living in the millennium as further evidenced by George W Bush and … and … I’ve heard that Jesus meets with the brethren in the holy of holies of each temple on a rotating basis … oh, the church is so true.
You may think I’m just being silly, but these are the kind of stories that thrilled me as a kid, and even as a young adult. My mother, to this day, believes that the millennium is already underway.
See, even Mormons get weary of waiting for Jesus.
June 12, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
So I guess I’d call my little contribution: “Argument from anecdote” — the crazier the better so long as it rings true to some traditional mormon lore.
JR said,
June 12, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
I always wondered why Mormonism is such a moving target. Can’t nail these folks down on anything. Build your faith on this; tell a moving story and get a good feeling.
June 12, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Mel,
I know how you feel. I felt a little dizzy just putting myself in my old frame of mind to write this post. I’m not joking. I really did feel a bit woolly-headed after I finished writing. Maybe I should only do this kind of thing in moderation.
Excellent addition. Three Nephites, miraculous healings, visitations of spirits: I heard it all, though I’ve never heard the one about the Second Coming already being underway, except from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just goes to prove that there are many different Mormon folk doctrines. My theory is that the folk doctrines are centered in families and locales like what happens in the Catholic church.
JR,
Mormonism is a moving target for exactly the reason you gave: Mormonism can’t be nailed down and crucified for its own teachings. I’m guessing that the neo-orthodoxy of the last few decades may be a mistake because it will only make things worse when the true history leaks out. I think the only way the LDS church can avoid catastrophe is to fess up and take the medicine. That’s probably just my wishful thinking.
cybr said,
June 12, 2007 @ 10:00 pm
Well since everyone can only seem to agree with you…
While on my mission, I talked to an LDS member who wanted his girlfriend and her son baptized (they wanted this as well). He wanted her to be baptized before they got married. They were living together, so you can see how this would be viewed by LDS standards. To this day I still could not recount the words I said to him that convinced him that the order in which he wanted to proceed was not proper, especially for one who was already a member of the Mormon Church. But, whatever I said worked. Was it me? Well, the words came out of my mouth even if I don’t recall what I said. Even my companion was stunned and claimed a little enlightenment by what I had said. But, I honestly don’t think I could convince anyone quite the same way again. Was it the Holy Spirit? Possibly. Can you tell me that I’m full of shit and weak for thinking that it was some outside force instead of my own deceitful salesmanlike intellect? Sure you could. Does that mean it didn’t mean anything to me because you say so? Hell no. It’s an experience that I can’t fully explain mathmatically nor have I been able to duplicate in similar situations. I”ve had other experiences that I feel more inclined to see an unseen outside influence other than my own at work. So while you are all discounting the “my friend’s cousin’s neighbor’s best friend’s bishop’s distant friend had this experience” which even I sometimes will scoff at, I have had my own experiences.
Does this dictate the Mormon Church is true? No. Does it mean that there definately is a diety or higher power? No. Should I discount my own personal experiences as something to consider when discovering who I am and what the universe is about? Hell no. I wouldn’t expect any of you to discount your personal experiences on your paths of self enlightenment. As I know Jonathan would have to agree with me on that peticular point.
cybr said,
June 12, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
Oh yes, and something you can make fun of me on. My list of why there is no god.
Enjoy
June 12, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
Cybr,
I tried my best so to be fair in my post to how I thought as a Mormon. Not all Mormons think this way, but I truly did. I’ll respond to your examples.
Those examples are some good evidence that religion is unreliable.
Lacking evidence for a god who answers prayers and creates universes, I choose to refrain from believing in such a god. There are lots of things that I believe in without proof. Those things have met a threshold for likelihood. God isn’t one of them.
Given all the religions in world history, religious believers are 99.999% likely to be wrong about their particular religion assuming that there is only one true religion and that all religions are equally likely to be true.
Peer support is certainly one source of cognitive bias. Human beings feel comfortable in numbers. Something to watch out for.
History can provide evidence that our religions were not divinely inspired or that our religion’s history is not accurately presented by believers.
Depending on the sincerity and desperation of the inquiries, and given the consistent lack of a response, it is reasonable to conclude that if there is a God, he doesn’t care.
The Mormon God, being more limited than other religions’ concepts of God, is actually pretty resistant to this argument. This argument is devastating for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God.
This is only valid if wars are motivated by religion. War is rarely that simple. Religion has a hand in many of the wars of history, but so do many other factors like ethnicity, wealth, population pressures, and so on. I agree that pointing to the Crusades (for example) and saying that religion is therefore evil is too easy.
This may be true in some cases, I don’t know, but it’s almost always untrue. As such, it qualifies as a false stereotype. It would be best to assume that this is untrue of any godless person we meet.
It depends on how you define needing God. We don’t need God to explain things for example, and when we do resort to God, it doesn’t end up explaining much. Looking at need in another way, it doesn’t seem that there is an interventionist God aiding humanity. We seem to be alone whether we like it or not.
There is a legitimate danger among atheists of believing with absolute confidence that there are no gods. That’s not justified in my opinion. There is a chance however slim that there is a God. It has been demonstrated pretty well, however, that any God that does exist isn’t the God of any of the major religions, so I’m not too worried about my atheism.
I don’t recognize any of these reasons as being part of atheist thinking.
June 12, 2007 @ 11:18 pm
Cybr,
Somehow I missed your first comment before I responded to your second.
I had a similar experience on my mission. I and my companion were called in by the sister missionaries to give a priesthood blessing to a woman in the ward. We were told nothing about why she wanted a blessing. My senior companion deferred to me to give the blessing. I thought then that he did it to help me learn. I wonder now whether he chickened out—I wouldn’t blame him.
I don’t remember exactly what I said as I laid my hands on her head, but I zeroed in on what was troubling her: marital problems. She somehow ameliorated her marital problems after the blessing that I gave her. She always had a special smile of gratitude for me after that.
How did I know? No one had told me, but there were subtle hints. It was one of those A Beautiful Mind moments when subtle, apparently unconnected trivia add up to a pattern. I thought at the time that God had inspired me to notice all of the circumstances that pointed to marital problems in this woman’s life.
Now I chalk it up to the amazing power of our minds to gather and recognize patterns. Our minds can do amazing things without or conscious awareness of their workings, especially when we get our critical, judgmental mind out of the way in the best spirit of Zen.
So experiences are important and shouldn’t be discounted, but more important than the experience itself is our interpretation. Every experience passes through interpretation. No experience has an inherent message which can survive untransformed when it passes through our interpretation.
cybr said,
June 13, 2007 @ 1:55 am
Like I said, I’d gotten these from a few different places. And some are far fetched. But in many sites I’d perused, most had just simply explained away any form of deity in that fashion, and quite often boast that theists always explain belief in such simple fashion and as thus theists are simple, weak, and feeble minded because of it. Perhaps the human race is feeble minded. While I may be one of the blithering idiots of the world, there have been many great thinkers who have believed in a deity. Even Buddhism is a religion with all its Zen (not to discount or discredit any of its positive contributions to the world).
Your reply at least is the first real, but not to me entirely convincing, effort to explain such. The earth is round really doesn’t dictate whether there is a god or not regardless. It could easily prove the fallibility of both science and religion, since both have made preposterous claims in the past. Yes, science is ever-changing and evolving. Religion in general seems to be as well, although a bit slower and more reluctant.
Also, unfortunately even John Forbes Nash Jr. saw stuff that wasn’t there. I wonder if that would clarify some prophets brilliantly intelligent?
Depending on if you believe in the whole UFO/Area 51 thing. George Knapp‘s interviews recounted one person who saying that the aliens indicated there was a “Universal Religion” and that the universe is God. Hmmm…. That’s an interesting thought; it would make god something physical and the creator of all things there in. Unless you’re of the notion that this is all in our minds (or just you the reader) and none of it is real to begin with.
Perhaps there is no god. However given humanities past, I don’t think the humanist philosophy is achievable or realistic and that mankind is doomed to destroy itself. I feel the only thing that could save us is genetic manipulation and selection of the human species as a whole for those superior qualities of intelligence, strength, agility, stamina, etc (and I’m not talking race exclusion cause each race possesses valued genetic qualities – we could end up purple for all I care). And once the genetic frailties of humankind have been breed out, we can continue to progress unhindered as a species. And math could help us accomplish this.
Of course, this is the fatalist, Machiavellian, neuromasochist Cybr speaking and not the cute, soft, cuddly, Mormon, “Wish I was much more masculine†Cybr that we all know and despise.
End Of Line.
June 13, 2007 @ 10:58 am
Contrary to what you may hear from some atheists, I don’t think a belief in deity indicates a lack of intelligence. Smart people can belief some really strange things. Intelligent people can be especially prone to some false beliefs because they may not be humble enough to acknowledge their own weakness.
I believe most prophets in the world had real experiences that led them to believe and say the things that they did. There are some charlatans, but I still believe most religious leaders are sincere.
Pantheism is the belief that the universe is God. I plan to post about pantheism soon.
Mankind may indeed be doomed to destruction, but all we can do is try (Yoda notwithstanding). I came to Humanism because of my dawning awareness that we are alone in the world. To me, it seems that Humanism is a reflection of how things truly are. Whether or not it will help humanity achieve success or even mere survival is irrelevant.
The question of whether humanity truly needs religious beliefs (whether or not they are true) in order to be happy and work together is another question. It’s hard to test this, but it doesn’t seem that religion has helped us to achieve world peace despite having thousands of years, and I’m not waiting around for Jesus to come again to bring peace to the world.
There are inherent weakness in humanity that we may be able to correct through technology, but we need to be extremely careful because down that road lies eugenics. I doubt that we understand ourselves enough yet to alter ourselves effectively.
June 13, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
Thanks for spreading the word, Jon. I like seeing some of my post appearing elsewhere, it can only do good! Cool site by the way, mind if I link to you?
June 13, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Astarte,
Thanks for the inspiration for this post
and for your kind words. I have a pretty liberal policy about linking to my site. I won’t complain.
June 19, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
I just found a similar collection of hundreds of proofs of God’s existence.